The divine Ms. C.H.O.

>> Margaret Cho on her new stand-up movie, Lea Delaria, Joan Rivers and the meaning of Gay Pride

by JOHN CUSTUDIO

“I am a fag hag.” With that bold declaration, Margaret Cho won the heart of every gay man who saw her inspirational one-woman show, I’m the One That I Want. On the eve of both Pride and the release of her new film, Notorious C.H.O., the self-declared “trash-talkin’, shit-startin’, girl comic” was kind enough to share with the Mirror her thoughts on various comic deities, the meaning of Pride and the proper way to celebrate it.

Mirror: Notorious C.H.O. was shown here last week as part of the Just for Laughs festival, and it’s about to be released at cinemas any day now. Congratulations.
Margaret Cho: Oh, thank you. It was really easy, to tell you the truth. My first film, I’m the One That I Want, was far more difficult. I didn’t know what I was doing, and I was so scared to commit my act to film, so unsure of myself. But it was such a success it made doing the second film a lot easier.

M: At the end of Notorious C.H.O., you talk about the revolutionary potential of loving yourself, the subversive value of self-esteem. I was hoping you would elaborate on that idea in terms of gay pride festivities. We’re just about to kick off pride celebrations here in Montreal.
MC: Gay pride is the perfect context for what I’m saying, because to really appreciate the meaning of gay pride is to truly feel it. It’s not just about going out and snogging some cute guy in a tight see-through T-shirt. Understanding that feeling good about yourself is in and of itself a political act-that’s what I’m talking about. Feminism went through this in the ’70s; the focus was on feeling good about ourselves and understanding that that was a fundamental step towards empowerment.

Pride burnout

M: You once said fag hags are the backbone of the gay community, which I took to mean our moral compasses too, so I feel comfortable asking you for guidance. First, a confession: I am so not up to Pride this year. I’m just not into it, you know? Like, I’m thinking of leaving town even. It’s getting to be a lot like Christmas. Every year I promise myself I’m gonna spend Christmas where it isn’t celebrated. That’s how I’m feeling this year about Pride. Am I a bad person?
MC: You should be allowed to feel that way, I think. You should be allowed to celebrate or observe Pride in any way you choose. That’s important.

M: I should explain my aversion. I don’t enjoy large crowds, especially not in sweltering heat, and I especially resent the pressure to have a great time. That whole “Happy-Pride-kiss-kiss” thing nauseates me just thinking about it!
MC: I had a friend like that. Every year he’d “hide from Pride,” and it would really upset me. I thought he was just being a party pooper and wrecking it for all of us, but in fact he just enjoyed spending the day on his own.

M: But I feel torn, because there’s this political imperative. Like, if I don’t go and show solidarity in this smallest of ways, how can I expect others to in any more meaningful ways? I am proud to be gay, quite proud, but I show it in other ways.
MC: I think it should be less a matter of going to it and more a matter of observing it in some way. They’re two different things. Going to Pride doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’re observing it, much less feeling it, and you don’t need to be there to honour the sentiment and really feel Pride. It should be a holiday that celebrates really feeling good about yourself. That’s what the whole self-esteem thing is all about: defining your own way of being you.

M: Excellent. I’m skipping town. Margaret Cho said I could.
MC: All right! You go!

All hail the fag hag!

M: The Just for Laughs comedy festival just wrapped up here. You were here for it in ’93, right? How was that for you?
MC: Great! I drank a lot, went to a lot of parties, and got a sitcom deal, sort of. I did very well for myself in terms of making connections, both industry and social. It was one of the really bright spots in my young girlhood. I really loved the city, too.

M: This year, as always, I attended the festival’s Queer Comics show, hosted by Lea Delaria. She introduced the last act of the evening by talking about how big the queer community is-and how inclusive. She talked about how it’s made up not only of fags and dykes and bisexuals and trannies, but fag hags too. And then she brought out Judy Tenuta.
MC: Oh! She’s a really good friend of mine! A wonderful comedian.

M: Fag hag solidarity. Nice. Would you ever consider coming back to do a Just for Laughs stint? Would you do the Queer Comics show?
MC: I don’t know. I haven’t really considered it. I did love playing Montreal on the Notorious C.H.O. tour, so I would love to go back, whether it’s to do my next show or the festival, or whatever. Queer Comics is certainly something I would consider doing. I would love to work with Lea. I love her. I just saw her in New York. She was tremendous.

M: Lea talked about how out of hand this whole niche-marketing thing in comedy is getting. She thought they should just mix it all up, queer and straight, on the same bill. I have mixed feelings about that. What do you think?
MC: Well, it’s fun to have our own night, but they do tend to exclude queer performers from more mainstream nights, don’t they?

M: It’s true, and year after year, the Queer Comics performers complain that the show always takes place before industry heavyweights arrive, so their acts are seldom seen-unless they get programmed in other shows. It’s like the Festival’s acknowledging that the industry just wouldn’t be interested in queer acts. On the other hand, I like the feeling of being acknowledged and addressed as a community. I enjoy knowing that these jokes are targeted at us and that we will get them best.
MC: Yeah, that’s important, but it’s also important to let queer performers do double duty.

Golden years

M: What do you think the future holds for queer comedy given that sort of climate? Are we in a golden age? Or are we due for a backlash?
MC: I think that we’re seeing the beginning of a golden age-a very, very long one that I hope will just grow and grow. There are gay television shows and gay films and a great wealth of gay comedians, but I think there’s more gay drama happening than gay comedy; the comedians need more exposure. I’m hoping for huge mainstream success for people like Lea Delaria and Scott Capuro. Scott’s American, but he’s better known in Britain. He’s brilliant, a very important comedian.

M: I want to tell you about something that happened at this year’s Just for Laughs festival, to Janeane Garofalo. The pinnacle, supposedly, of success for a comedian at the festival is being put in a Gala. Galas take place at an upscale theatre and people pay upscale prices to see them, and they’re televised. I would characterize Gala audiences as the blandest of the bland suburban middle-class types. Well, Janeane tanked. She was dying and she knew it, but she just kind of turned to the wings and said, “Um, FYI, don’t put me in a Gala.” I thought that was kind of cool on her part, because it was an acknowledgment that that just wasn’t her audience, and that crossover success is not necessarily such a great thing.
MC: Janeane’s brilliant. She’s one of my important early influences. We started together. She helped me to develop as a comic, and I taught her how to smoke cigarettes. It wasn’t an equal exchange. What’s so great about her is her willingness to take risks, which means not always getting the reaction you would like.

M: Later that evening, she performed at the Alternative Comedy show and she killed. She was amazing.
MC: Right. That’s her audience. But I wanted to say that sometimes it’s a good thing to tank; it’s certainly happened to me. Every once in a while, I do it with glee.

M: Does that mean crossover success isn’t important to you?
MC: It’s important. It’s something I reach for, certainly, but it’s not vital, not life-or-death crucial. I mean, I’m happy and could easily stay happy right where I am.

M: Your roots are in stand-up, and like I’m the One that I Want, Notorious C.H.O. is a full-length stand-up show. Now, obviously you’ll be doing other things in what promises to be an eventful career, but will you always come back to stand-up?
MC: Always. I saw Joan Rivers perform recently, and she’s as old as the hills, but still a really great stand-up comedian. And dirty! Raunchy and filthy in a way that you just don’t expect from a woman that age. It was so great, though, because her audience was filled with all these really old, old queens who just loved all of the filth; they expected it from her. They’re people who have loved her ever since her beginnings. That’s what I want for myself: to be able to do stand-up when I’m really old and to be surrounded by fans who have been with me forever. :

Notorious C.H.O. opens Friday, Aug. 9 at the Cinéma du Parc