The business of barely breaking even

>> Ricky D and Perry give up the goods on promoting hip hop concerts in Montreal

by SCOTT C

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Once upon a time in the big economic crap shoot we like to call the city of Montreal, there were two guys trying to get ahead. On the one hand there was Perry, who, while not a stranger to business, longed to do something a little more challenging than some of the already lucrative projects he had fathered.

On the other hand was Ricky, the hungry, in-your-face, professional hustler who wanted to put his name on something a little bigger than a party flyer. Love 'em or hate 'em, these two--Perry Giannais and Ricky D--emerged as the duo responsible for most of the hip hop shows to come to Montreal over the years.

There's been an awful lot of speculation lately on why hip hop shows just don't make it to Montreal. If they do manage to get scheduled, rumours abound about whether the show will happen at all--or worse, ticket-holders are faced with the dreaded cancellation. More often than not, it's the promoter who shoulders the blame for anything that goes wrong. People are pretty quick to blame the organizers for everything from a high ticket-price to the artist not showing up, when in fact there are many more factors at play. I spoke to Ricky and Perry about the ups and downs of the Montreal promoter.

Mirror: My first question to the two of you right off the bat is this: are Ricky and Perry making dollars in the year 2000?

Perry: Absolutely. We're still concert promoting, we'll have three "Off the Hook" clothing stores in the next six weeks, Ricky is managing a hot new hip hop artist that just got signed to Warner Canada.

Ricky: We're about to make some money. I ain't made no money yet.

P: The question was in the year 2000.

R: Okay, okay, but if you're sayin' have we been makin money? Hell no. (laughs)

P: There ain't no money in concert promoting, that's for sure.

M: What do you mean by that?

P: It's very difficult to make money, especially in a market like Montreal.

M: So you're saying that a concert promoter who does say 15-20 shows a year is not rolling in the dough?

R: False!

P: Eeeeeennnght!!! Wrong!

M: So if you're not getting any monetary returns out of this, then why are you doing it?

R: We doin' it more for the love. This is our gift back to music. In concert promotion, you're talkin' about organizations like the House of Blues, a major production company in Canada. Now, they make money because they have major backing in the form of corporate sponsors and they've got concessions, which make shows a viable investment for them. Us, we're working off of a strictly door scenario, with maybe a little help from local sponsors or the record label at that. So our break-even, which is the imaginary figure where you have to divide your gross into your ticket price to see how many people that you get, we live and die off of that.

M: I understand. I guess there's a lot of cash to be made selling food and drinks at a show.

P: (laughing) Our accounting is very simple, whereas an organization like House of Blues, if they even come close to breaking even at the door, it doesn't matter because they're making a heck of a lot more money selling concessions. When we go into a Molson Centre, CEPSUM or Metropolis, we're making nothing but the door.

Teen beats

R: We're out there trying to contribute to and build a scene that we've been a part of since we were teenagers.

M: How long have you guys been doing this?

P: I started promoting when I was at Concordia, for the Students Association.

M: What was the first show you ever did?

P: Oh man. It's embarrassing the first show

I did.

M: C'mon!

P: It was a heavy metal group called Anvil--

M: Yo, I know Anvil. That's not embarrassing, man. They were Canadian, and I remember they had this ill video. It's all relative to the time.

P: That's right! 1985. They were Canadian. Scott knows his '80s metal. (laughs)

M: What about you, Ricky?

R: Man, I can't remember. At that time I was doing more parties than anything else.

M: So then how did you get into doing hip hop shows?

R & P: (together) Garry T.

R: Yeah, I met Perry through Garry because they were doing concerts together. Garry knew me from the streets and doin' parties and liked my enthusiasm and hard work ethic. He decided he needed somebody to come along with him and Perry to get the job done.

P: And I'm still waiting for that friggin' hard work ethic and all that to come out in Ricky... (laughs)

M: Did you guys have a lot of competition back then?

P: Oh my god! Everybody and their mother wanted to do shows. About 10 years ago, it was common that anybody who could get money together had the perception that they could just do a show and make easy money. Somebody did Boot Camp at the Medley, and they couldn't pay the band and a riot broke out. They ripped the Medley apart.

R: In those days it wasn't hard to get a venue, but at the same time, there were so many fraudulent promoters that even if you got a venue it didn't guarantee your house would be full. People didn't know anything about getting artists across the border back then either.

Borders, Biggie and bad reps

M: Is that a big issue, getting people across the border hassle free?

P: It still is, unfortunately. If artists aren't straight with you about whatever happened in their past, you're screwed and at the mercy of the border guards.

R: You need to get the act across, that's one of the biggest issues. A lot of American hip hop artists think that if they come clean about their criminal record, we're gonna pass on booking the show and sometimes that's the case. Or we take it to Immigration, do the paperwork and work it out like we did with DMX.

M: So you could have everything going precisely according to plan, and then have the artist get stopped at the border.

P: Look at Biggie at The World. Remember that one, Ricky? 1,500 tickets sold out in advance and they wouldn't let him through.

M: Do you think it's easier to do shows now?

R: No. Partly because I feel that the media doesn't give proper representation to hip hop in this city. It's a trickle-down effect because then you have the other promoters involved, the venue, the sponsors--they all want to associate themselves with a positive product.

P: In other words, everybody wants to talk about the negative.

R: The media feeds off of the negative light associated with hip hop, especially in Montreal.

From hits to money pits

M: What are some of the better shows you've done?

P: I'll tell you the most glorious event we ever did that was also the worst financial disaster we ever had, and that was Smokin' Grooves in 1998. That was the hottest hip hop show this city will ever see. There will never be a lineup like that again: Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, Gangstarr, Wyclef, Busta Rhymes, Black Eyed Peas. Jarry Parc was electric, even when the rain came down for about an hour.

R: Financially, it was a disaster. Why? Number one, the show was expensive. Two, people were afraid of an outdoor hip hop venue because there was a lot of speculation in the papers about whether the groups would even show, again feeding off the negative. Of course, nothing happened and it was an awesome show.

P: Unfortunately, we did 5,500 people when we needed 8,000 to break even.

M: Ooooo!

R: I gotta say the Roots and Outkast show at the Rialto, that was a phat show, man. KRS One at the Spectrum! Oh my god! That was the shit! Whaaat!

M: What about financially? You guys must have made some money somewhere, I mean, please.

P: Fugees, Cypress, Tribe.

R: Yep.

P: At the Molson Centre. At 12,000 people, that was easily the biggest hip hop show in Montreal. That was when the Fugees blew up.

P: Reuben Fogel told me something a long time ago which always sticks in my head. He said that concert promoting is the only business in the world where you're happy to break even. Do you think McDonald's opens up to break even? In concert promoting, if at the end of the night you've invested $100,000 and you broke even--me and Ricky are breakdancing on the stage with delight. *