Digging in and
branching out

>> ?uestlove of the Roots on charting change
and expanding the range of hip hop

THINKING-CLASS HERO: Ahmir “?uestlove” Thompson

by SCOTT C

Some of you might remember the last time Philadelphia’s the Roots came to Montreal where, after playing yet another blazing capacity show, drummer and minister of information Ahmir “?uestlove” Thompson was set to DJ at Academy, with support from Toronto’s DJ Nana and your friendly neighbourhood Scott C. Long story short, ?uestlove played all night, leaving Nana and I scowling in the corner, and the whole mess spilled over into the blogosphere, where Ahmir and I had some words. Due back in town for another live show with the Roots at Metropolis this Friday (full disclosure: I’m DJing there), I reached ?uestlove by phone, and while our tiff was behind us, we did manage to talk about a few other things.

Mirror: I’ve heard you talk a lot about themes running through the many albums the Roots have already recorded, and how each album represents a different evolutionary stage in the group’s dynamic. Where would you put your last album, and the album in the works, on the Roots evolutionary chart?

?uestlove: Most people would describe Game Theory as a dark record, but I like to think of it as a mature record. I kind of wanted to demonstrate that rap music didn’t necessarily have to be party music. A lot of people use hip hop just as an excuse and a means to dance, but it should really be an expression of all types of music. It’s rare that anybody in their thirties gets to express any kind of art, and be respected, as far as hip hop is concerned. On our new album, I’ll say that the darks are darker, and the lights are lighter. There’s definitely more light moments on this album, as well as a more electric feel. We replaced the Fender Rhodes with synth keyboards, but my concern is mainly making a quality 10th record. That’s the challenge. No one in hip hop can say that.

SURVIVORS: The Roots

Beyond the buffoons

M: It seems to me that hip hop audiences and non-audiences alike have bought into the idea of rap as party music for a very long time. What’s to be done when hip hop artists themselves are still buying into this idea in a big way? Do you think it’s their responsibility to shift this perception?

?: It’s because hip hop is more or less used as a survival tool, as opposed to a means of expression. Most of the people who are creating hip hop are primarily thinking of it as a means of survival, and when you’re trying to survive, you have to mass-produce or create the status quo. Hip hop isn’t really allowed the range that rock music and other types of music are allowed to get away with. Even if a group is radical, like your Yeah Yeah Yeahs or TV on the Radio, there’s no pressure on them to become multimillion sellers. There’s room for them and their art. You don’t have that room in hip hop because it’s hard to create serious music in a genre in which the people themselves aren’t taking it seriously. A lot of that is due to the fact that hip hop is basically used as the tool for people to learn about culture.

M: Yeah, but hasn’t that idea become a double-edged sword?

?: Well, put it this way. I wouldn’t watch The Terminator and assume that all white people are gun-toting authority figures that speak robotic. That’s just a character. Unfortunately for hip hop, a lot of people’s only experience with studying black culture is through that music, and because of the over-exaggerated nature of it, it’s kind of hard to show a range other than the gangster, drug dealer, buffoon or minstrel. So yeah, it is a hard sell to get serious in a genre that isn’t necessarily taken seriously.

Clowning achievement

M: Speaking of buffoons, I was watching the Flavor Flav roast on Comedy Central the other night. Did you manage to catch any of that?

?: I only caught Snoop’s bit for about three minutes, but I couldn’t watch that, man.

M: I know exactly what you mean, man, but looking at a group like Public Enemy, and the sidecar fame that Flavor Flav has achieved by being a complete buffoon on TV, do you think that he ends up hurting the reputation and credibility of P.E. and the huge impact they once had on hip hop culture?

?: It’s kind of funny you’re asking that, because I just did five dates with them for the Rock the Bells tour. It’s a strange call because obviously Flav’s popularity has garnered a new energy in the group, and somewhat of a new interest. I watched the crowd respond to EPMD rather sheepishly. I was thinking, “These are hip hop legends! Why y’all frontin’ for?” Then they gave the same cold reception to Mos Def and Talib Kweli. When Public Enemy came on, the place all of a sudden came alive, and the obvious reason for that energy is because most of them know Flav from his reality show.

But having said that, Flavor has been quite consistent for the last 20 years. Chuck D’s whole purpose was for Flavor Flav to be the clown prince of the group. He presented America’s educated black man, he presented America’s militant black man, and he presented America’s silent black man, and then he presented Flav, who represented America’s uninhibited black man. That’s why Public Enemy really touched close to home, because they were four different dimensions of what the black man was, as opposed to now, where America’s just overdosing on the uninhibited, I-don’t-give-a-fuck black man. It’s rather ironic that Flav is responsible for the new interest in P.E., otherwise they would have been written off as old-timers.

M: I find it strange to both laugh at, and be embarrassed by, Flavor Flav at the same time.

?: Well, I don’t blame Flav, I blame the gatekeepers. If there were a balance on television, I wouldn’t complain at all, but part of the problem is who’s creating the balance. You have to look at who’s green-lighting these things.

Reality check

M: As a hip hop group that is able to creatively go wherever you want to go, do you consider yourself part of a kind of hip hop ruling class?

?: (laughs) Well, I’ll say I’m part of hip hop’s thinking class! We’ve created a very good niche for ourselves, and I believe we’ve managed to keep our self-respect, which is an extremely, extremely hard thing to do in hip hop. To maintain your self-respect means being yourself, not being the same, and yet still doing nothing to embarrass yourself just for the sake of winning over a particular audience or whatever. The fact that we’ve actually been able to do that, survive for 16 years, and make it to our 10th record is commendable. The temptation is always there, trust me. There’ve been many offers for many reality shows, and many things that we did not agree with image-wise, that we could have taken advantage of, but the fact is that we’re holding on to our credibility so tight that it’s almost paralyzing.

M: What kind of reality show offers did you get, if you don’t mind me asking?

?: (laughs) Too many to mention, man, trust me. Everything from blind dates to... believe me, they’ve all been offered.

I feel the difference between an artist and a celebrity is that a celebrity’s lifestyle tends to supersede their actual talent, whereas an artist is simply respected for their work and that’s it. However, if we did get to the point where we’d be comfortable sharing our private lives with the world, there are seven different stories to tell, especially because we’re not the same men we were 16 years ago. Fatherhood, marriage, maturity. I don’t think that you have to be mired in controversy and scandal to seem interesting.

With Down With Webster and Scott C at
Metropolis on Friday, Sept. 7, 8:30 p.m., $36